This story has been bubbling on the side for some time it involves a lot of complex topics.
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@futurebird My daughter (10) was playing a game on Roblox called something like “Harbor East” which mostly involved criminal rampaging and shooting. We had a talk about it and she stopped playing that particular game and went back to her fashion contest game (which is also a bit problematic, IMO). I think it’s only a matter of time before I ban the whole thing in our house. I don’t know what in particular inspired your thread, but that platform makes me quite nervous as the parent of a rather precious child.
The influence of this platform is massive. It's hard to say anything about the content since it changes quickly and is a kind of free-for all ... and use-created which the owners hide behind to avoid really screening or moderating much at all. But more than moderation to ban words or guns or whatever, the way it's all monetized incentivizes making games that are edgy to get people on your game and earn robucks.
And then there are the ads.
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@remote_orb @futurebird I think most of the kids that are successfully targeted tend to lack this type of parenting.
You shouldn't have to watch them all the time or control their behavior. This issue is bigger than individual parenting. We need real communities and accountability for companies (and individual bad actors).
Instead you're mostly abandoned to whatever you as a parent can muster for the duration of your time as one. And, it shouldn't be that way.
There is a kind of predator who knows that a space where kids are encouraged to push boundaries and make edgy jokes (and keep secrets from adults) works totally to their advantage. They look for lonely kids who don't have adults in their life to listen to them and take them seriously. They play that role and then ...
It's nothing new. It's just a new forum.
But it is possible to make it harder for such people. And it's possible to catch them.
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Is the user-made Roblox game "too sexual" for teens? Was a user being exploitative? These aren't things you can solve with an automated filter or AI. It takes real time and attention of adults who can make level headed calls about where the line is in each case.
It also takes effort spent to model good community norms.
Instead a lot of young people have been left unsupervised in a fake online casino where "success" is earning a fake currency by making shock content.
@futurebird in my experience the only way to have such online spaces is publically owned funded and operated- human moderation is hard, and costs too much money for anyone to “invest” in it- there’s no profit in it, i think, and so i feel like that’s why it’s not getting done, why club penguin and toon town got shut down.
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@futurebird in my experience the only way to have such online spaces is publically owned funded and operated- human moderation is hard, and costs too much money for anyone to “invest” in it- there’s no profit in it, i think, and so i feel like that’s why it’s not getting done, why club penguin and toon town got shut down.
I have this crazy notion that managing online spaces should be something kids do in school just like school newspapers and school bake sales. It would mean intentionally creating safe and fun opportunities for young people to learn about how to participate and manage this kind of communication. Just like with face to face communication.
Instead school newspapers are dying with many other extracurricular activities. Because it means investing in human intelligence.
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I have this crazy notion that managing online spaces should be something kids do in school just like school newspapers and school bake sales. It would mean intentionally creating safe and fun opportunities for young people to learn about how to participate and manage this kind of communication. Just like with face to face communication.
Instead school newspapers are dying with many other extracurricular activities. Because it means investing in human intelligence.
The young people who are best equipped to be safe online are also those equipped to be safe offline. And, this is becoming an issue of class. Which is very depressing.
The less money you have the more your life is saturated with ads, full of compromises. To have some fun playing a game for a bit you risk getting a computer virus, identity theft or your kids could get exposed to professional creeps.
Roblox thrives because it's cheap and, for some, the only option.
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The young people who are best equipped to be safe online are also those equipped to be safe offline. And, this is becoming an issue of class. Which is very depressing.
The less money you have the more your life is saturated with ads, full of compromises. To have some fun playing a game for a bit you risk getting a computer virus, identity theft or your kids could get exposed to professional creeps.
Roblox thrives because it's cheap and, for some, the only option.
When I go on someone else's computer or phone that doesn't have all of the ad blockers and filters that I use I'm shocked at the pit of trash I find myself in. The internet is hardly usable at all. Tech savvy, people, and people with some moderate disposable income have walled ourselvfs off from the pit.
And some people pretend like if people "were just more educated" they could install Debian or whatever and get out but it's not that simple.
It's not that simple at all.
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Then there is the role of discord in making some of these problems worse.
I shudder to think about what is happening in secret discords at any moment. The privacy of these online spaces can make them very dangerous.
I wonder if all the bullshit "age verification" laws apply to shit like Roblox too...
@futurebird @ephesossh -
I wonder if all the bullshit "age verification" laws apply to shit like Roblox too...
@futurebird @ephesosshHonestly? I don't think it's doing much of anything. I don't think it's a good way to address these issues at all because what is need is human moderation. Things like very *responsive* chat-lines and reporting tools.
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Is the user-made Roblox game "too sexual" for teens? Was a user being exploitative? These aren't things you can solve with an automated filter or AI. It takes real time and attention of adults who can make level headed calls about where the line is in each case.
It also takes effort spent to model good community norms.
Instead a lot of young people have been left unsupervised in a fake online casino where "success" is earning a fake currency by making shock content.
@futurebird absolutely. I was a game mod many years ago in another online game. When human mods were there, we kept the environment civil, kept bullies from taking over, kept racism out, made sure bad actors, gold farmers (these are usually run using forced labor) etc were not present. Once human mods disappeared, online games basically turned toxic, with many/most games becoming unpleasant spaces in the "global" chat areas. Human mods need to be brought back.
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@futurebird absolutely. I was a game mod many years ago in another online game. When human mods were there, we kept the environment civil, kept bullies from taking over, kept racism out, made sure bad actors, gold farmers (these are usually run using forced labor) etc were not present. Once human mods disappeared, online games basically turned toxic, with many/most games becoming unpleasant spaces in the "global" chat areas. Human mods need to be brought back.
I think people think moderation is this kind of silly trivial thing but the way people get so upset and emotional about being banned or even getting a warning in the most pointless online spaces is amazing. Because it's social too. And people are social creatures. It matters to most people (even many bad actors) to feel like they are "part of" it all.
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I think people think moderation is this kind of silly trivial thing but the way people get so upset and emotional about being banned or even getting a warning in the most pointless online spaces is amazing. Because it's social too. And people are social creatures. It matters to most people (even many bad actors) to feel like they are "part of" it all.
The ideal mod has too much time on their hands, is a bit of a nerd about the space they are modding, cares about the space and the rules being consistent over most other things... but ALSO doesn't want to be important and says "no" when you ask them the first time.
