@futurebird @farah His Culture world is amazing and something to aspire to, even though a bit dark in parts

@futurebird @farah

I really need to read beyond the first one then. My reaction to that book was "please just let one good thing happen to this guy"

@Johns_priv @futurebird @farah Do the techbros think this is the world they are creating? Because so far it looks more like the world of Lazarus by Greg Rucka, with battling feudal corporations using advanced science to keep an iron grip on serfs while poisoning the world.

@gbargoud @farah

Which one did you read?

@jhavok @Johns_priv @farah

"Do the techbros think this is the world they are creating?"

No that's the world they fear more than anything. In "The Culture" it's impossible to control people, to be a big man with power over others.

The only way to be a little important is to make impressive art, or do daring things that you could maybe brag about later.

What most people do is enjoy their friends and family and enjoy life and the beauty of the universe.

This is hell to techbros

@jhavok @Johns_priv @farah

I kind of feel like that was one of the big points of "player of games"

It's grappled with the question of "but what about people who can't be happy unless they can dominate others?" and basically showed why this whole question is trash.

@futurebird @farah

Consider Phlebas

@gbargoud @farah

Oh that's the "adventure" one. It's similar to "player of games" in some ways, but not as good IMO.

Yeah try some of the other ones.

@jhavok @Johns_priv @farah

I think Banks tried to "steel man" the conservative world and the value(?) of hierarchy but became disgusted with the intellectual exercise and about two thirds of the way through the books he's like "no this has zero redeeming qualities nothing worth saving"

@gbargoud @futurebird @farah Yeah, Banks is generally rough on his protagonists, even if it turns out kinda ok as part of a heroic transformation. I think it's partly Bank's general darkness, but also the narrative constraint of coming up with an interesting plot in what amounts to utopia. So a lot of the stuff happens at the edges, when encountering less enlightened civilizations, and shit happens.

Note also that Banks never really pushes the Culture as an utopia: while the average Culture citizen does just fine for themselves, mostly, these edge interactions are always loaded with moral ambiguity.

The POV in Consider Phlebas does not really help, either. Protagonists are more embedded in the Culture in the next volumes, Use of Weapons and Player of Games, which is more interesting in terms of, well, Culture (but do not expect an easy ride for the protagonists, either).

I prefer the pre-Excession novels, and it gets a bit repetitive in the later volumes, but it's still my favorite SF series...