Neolibs have been continually trying to make the Bill Clinton "triangulation" strategy work for 30 years now. And it never really works. The only way they still manage to win occasionally is when the Republicans have been especially awful recently or they have an incumbent advantage so they can laze around, change nothing, and wait for the pendulum to swing back. And it kinda sorta worked in the era of the neocons. But now that Rs have swung extreme right populist, the "middle ground" they want to try and triangulate on simply doesn't exist, because that's simply going to be fash-lite. And if someone is willing to vote fash anyway, they'll just vote ACTUAL fascists.

Triangulation (politics) - Wikipedia

(en.m.wikipedia.org)

@futurebird @foolishowl @PallasRiot

@JessTheUnstill @futurebird @foolishowl @PallasRiot This is about 20 years out of date. The Democratic party since the Iraq war has consistently tried to do major left policies like Biden's original Build Back Better act, a statutory right to abortion, blocks on gerrymandering, or a public option in Obama's ACA, and been blocked by Democrats in Name only like Lieberman, Manchin, and Sinema. Manchin and Sinema eventually even dropped the pretense and switched to independent.

@JessTheUnstill @futurebird @foolishowl @PallasRiot This is about 20 years out of date. The Democratic party since the Iraq war has consistently tried to do major left policies like Biden's original Build Back Better act, a statutory right to abortion, blocks on gerrymandering, or a public option in Obama's ACA, and been blocked by Democrats in Name only like Lieberman, Manchin, and Sinema. Manchin and Sinema eventually even dropped the pretense and switched to independent.

@CurtAdams

If you think ACA and Build Back Better were "major left policies" I have some shocking and disturbing news for you.

@JessTheUnstill @futurebird @foolishowl @PallasRiot

@johnzajac @JessTheUnstill @futurebird @foolishowl @PallasRiot Can you name a bill, anywhere, in any country, that did more to stop climate change than Build Back Better?

Do you think 20 million people getting insurance, and *everybody* insured actually getting to use their insurance when they get sick, is small? And, of course, Obama wanted even bigger, with a public option and bigger subsidies. But DINOs, especially Lieberman, stopped that.

@CurtAdams

Friend, I'm telling you that neither of those bills was leftist, or sufficient.

You're saying "well, they made our extraordinarily brutal and evil system slightly less brutal and evil", and that's true-ish.

Like most Democratic "compromises", they gave away the long term for very minor and transient short term wins. I can't name a bill that did more, because the US is notorious for not doing *anything*. So kudos, I guess?

@JessTheUnstill @futurebird @foolishowl @PallasRiot

@CurtAdams

Friend, I'm telling you that neither of those bills was leftist, or sufficient.

You're saying "well, they made our extraordinarily brutal and evil system slightly less brutal and evil", and that's true-ish.

Like most Democratic "compromises", they gave away the long term for very minor and transient short term wins. I can't name a bill that did more, because the US is notorious for not doing *anything*. So kudos, I guess?

@JessTheUnstill @futurebird @foolishowl @PallasRiot

@johnzajac @JessTheUnstill @futurebird @foolishowl @PallasRiot Can you answer the question? When, any wherre, any time, was any bill passed that did more to fight climate change than Build Back Better?

The answer is "never". It was the largest by far. If you're saying the biggest policy ever to address IMO the biggest issue in the world is too little to justify support, then your standards are unreasonable.

@CurtAdams

I have literally written essays on why the ACA was, in the end, a net negative for healthcare in the country, but this will have to do for this forum:

1) The ACA made assumptions about good faith on the part of the insurance companies that have proven to be naive
2) The resultant regulatory framework looks like it was written by industry consultants, and probably was
3) So today, millions "have" health insurance, but...

@JessTheUnstill @futurebird @foolishowl @PallasRiot

@CurtAdams @johnzajac @JessTheUnstill @foolishowl @PallasRiot

I think this question is changing the subject. John's point is Democrats have not done enough, did not use their time in power to good effect. You have highlighted some of the things that they did do which were very difficult.

But what if part of what makes it difficult is that it's not enough?

Frankly I get mixed messages from Democrats. Voters when polled think they are as corrupt as Republicans.

Why is that?

@CurtAdams @johnzajac @JessTheUnstill @foolishowl @PallasRiot

I think this question is changing the subject. John's point is Democrats have not done enough, did not use their time in power to good effect. You have highlighted some of the things that they did do which were very difficult.

But what if part of what makes it difficult is that it's not enough?

Frankly I get mixed messages from Democrats. Voters when polled think they are as corrupt as Republicans.

Why is that?

@johnzajac @JessTheUnstill @futurebird @foolishowl @PallasRiot Just the ACA Medicaid expansion alone saved 19,000 lives over 3 years. https://www.cbpp.org/research/health/medicaid-expansion-has-saved-at-least-19000-lives-new-research-finds. And would have saved 15,000 more if the Republicans on the Supreme court hadn't rewritten then law.

It's now been 11 years since implementation, and I think a law that was written to save about 100,000 is a very good thing. Do you disagree?

@futurebird @johnzajac @JessTheUnstill @foolishowl @PallasRiot The public thinks the Democrats are equally corrupt because the media spent VASTLY more time talking about Hillary Clinton using email the same way every previous Secretary of State did than they did talking about the hundreds of millions in fraud Trump did - including fraudulent charity operations *during the 2016 campaign* https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37547094

@CurtAdams @johnzajac

This isn't, in my view, a problem of messaging or of voters "not knowing all the good things Biden did" I did my best to push that too! No. They would just say "but what about Pelosi trading stocks?" or "why is our foreign policy like that?" or "but what will they *do* about immigration?"

Last one is interesting because it *wasn't* that they wanted harsh enforcement. Just a real change from this quasi-legal black market labor nonsense.

@futurebird @johnzajac We *did* have an immigration bill. Trump blocked it.

The important point is that when the policies aren't good enough, the problem is almost always that the Democrats don't have a large enough majority.

@CurtAdams @johnzajac

An immigration bill but also so much backing for more border security. Which is like admitting that the border was ever really a problem. If the thesis is that immigrants don't cause crime (because they don't) why do they keep doing things that suggest republicans are correct?

@CurtAdams @johnzajac

An immigration bill but also so much backing for more border security. Which is like admitting that the border was ever really a problem. If the thesis is that immigrants don't cause crime (because they don't) why do they keep doing things that suggest republicans are correct?

@futurebird @johnzajac Well, because the Democrats had to have some Republican support to pass the bill.

When Dems are really in control, like here in CA, we get sanctuary policies and healthcare for undocumented immigrants.

@CurtAdams @johnzajac

Do you think that if Democrats keep doing what they have been doing they will win?

Frankly, as a very practical matter, that's my top concern. How do they wrestle back enough power to move us away from this cliff? And further, if they do get power will they be able to use it effectively?

I have been trusting the democratic leadership "knows what they are doing" and I think that's a big mistake now.

For example: They could stop trading stocks. They could do that today.

@futurebird @CurtAdams

I think this is a distraction because political leadership is about so much more than legislation, which is something Republicans have understood since Reagan and something Democrats haven't understood since JFK and RFK were assassinated.

The real missed play here isn't "immigration legislation"; it's calling out GOP lies about the impact immigration has on the country. It's acknowledging and celebrating our reliance on migrant workers. It's supporting their unions.