Pete Buttigieg and Gavin Newsom know they're lying about trans kids.
-
@JessTheUnstill @futurebird @foolishowl @PallasRiot This is about 20 years out of date. The Democratic party since the Iraq war has consistently tried to do major left policies like Biden's original Build Back Better act, a statutory right to abortion, blocks on gerrymandering, or a public option in Obama's ACA, and been blocked by Democrats in Name only like Lieberman, Manchin, and Sinema. Manchin and Sinema eventually even dropped the pretense and switched to independent.
If you think ACA and Build Back Better were "major left policies" I have some shocking and disturbing news for you.
-
If you think ACA and Build Back Better were "major left policies" I have some shocking and disturbing news for you.
@johnzajac @JessTheUnstill @futurebird @foolishowl @PallasRiot Can you name a bill, anywhere, in any country, that did more to stop climate change than Build Back Better?
Do you think 20 million people getting insurance, and *everybody* insured actually getting to use their insurance when they get sick, is small? And, of course, Obama wanted even bigger, with a public option and bigger subsidies. But DINOs, especially Lieberman, stopped that.
-
@johnzajac @JessTheUnstill @futurebird @foolishowl @PallasRiot Can you name a bill, anywhere, in any country, that did more to stop climate change than Build Back Better?
Do you think 20 million people getting insurance, and *everybody* insured actually getting to use their insurance when they get sick, is small? And, of course, Obama wanted even bigger, with a public option and bigger subsidies. But DINOs, especially Lieberman, stopped that.
Friend, I'm telling you that neither of those bills was leftist, or sufficient.
You're saying "well, they made our extraordinarily brutal and evil system slightly less brutal and evil", and that's true-ish.
Like most Democratic "compromises", they gave away the long term for very minor and transient short term wins. I can't name a bill that did more, because the US is notorious for not doing *anything*. So kudos, I guess?
-
Friend, I'm telling you that neither of those bills was leftist, or sufficient.
You're saying "well, they made our extraordinarily brutal and evil system slightly less brutal and evil", and that's true-ish.
Like most Democratic "compromises", they gave away the long term for very minor and transient short term wins. I can't name a bill that did more, because the US is notorious for not doing *anything*. So kudos, I guess?
I have literally written essays on why the ACA was, in the end, a net negative for healthcare in the country, but this will have to do for this forum:
1) The ACA made assumptions about good faith on the part of the insurance companies that have proven to be naive
2) The resultant regulatory framework looks like it was written by industry consultants, and probably was
3) So today, millions "have" health insurance, but... -
Friend, I'm telling you that neither of those bills was leftist, or sufficient.
You're saying "well, they made our extraordinarily brutal and evil system slightly less brutal and evil", and that's true-ish.
Like most Democratic "compromises", they gave away the long term for very minor and transient short term wins. I can't name a bill that did more, because the US is notorious for not doing *anything*. So kudos, I guess?
@johnzajac @JessTheUnstill @futurebird @foolishowl @PallasRiot Can you answer the question? When, any wherre, any time, was any bill passed that did more to fight climate change than Build Back Better?
The answer is "never". It was the largest by far. If you're saying the biggest policy ever to address IMO the biggest issue in the world is too little to justify support, then your standards are unreasonable.
-
@johnzajac @JessTheUnstill @futurebird @foolishowl @PallasRiot Can you answer the question? When, any wherre, any time, was any bill passed that did more to fight climate change than Build Back Better?
The answer is "never". It was the largest by far. If you're saying the biggest policy ever to address IMO the biggest issue in the world is too little to justify support, then your standards are unreasonable.
@CurtAdams @johnzajac @JessTheUnstill @foolishowl @PallasRiot
I think this question is changing the subject. John's point is Democrats have not done enough, did not use their time in power to good effect. You have highlighted some of the things that they did do which were very difficult.
But what if part of what makes it difficult is that it's not enough?
Frankly I get mixed messages from Democrats. Voters when polled think they are as corrupt as Republicans.
Why is that?
-
I have literally written essays on why the ACA was, in the end, a net negative for healthcare in the country, but this will have to do for this forum:
1) The ACA made assumptions about good faith on the part of the insurance companies that have proven to be naive
2) The resultant regulatory framework looks like it was written by industry consultants, and probably was
3) So today, millions "have" health insurance, but...@johnzajac @JessTheUnstill @futurebird @foolishowl @PallasRiot Just the ACA Medicaid expansion alone saved 19,000 lives over 3 years. https://www.cbpp.org/research/health/medicaid-expansion-has-saved-at-least-19000-lives-new-research-finds. And would have saved 15,000 more if the Republicans on the Supreme court hadn't rewritten then law.
It's now been 11 years since implementation, and I think a law that was written to save about 100,000 is a very good thing. Do you disagree?
-
@CurtAdams @johnzajac @JessTheUnstill @foolishowl @PallasRiot
I think this question is changing the subject. John's point is Democrats have not done enough, did not use their time in power to good effect. You have highlighted some of the things that they did do which were very difficult.
But what if part of what makes it difficult is that it's not enough?
Frankly I get mixed messages from Democrats. Voters when polled think they are as corrupt as Republicans.
Why is that?
This isn't, in my view, a problem of messaging or of voters "not knowing all the good things Biden did" I did my best to push that too! No. They would just say "but what about Pelosi trading stocks?" or "why is our foreign policy like that?" or "but what will they *do* about immigration?"
Last one is interesting because it *wasn't* that they wanted harsh enforcement. Just a real change from this quasi-legal black market labor nonsense.
-
@CurtAdams @johnzajac @JessTheUnstill @foolishowl @PallasRiot
I think this question is changing the subject. John's point is Democrats have not done enough, did not use their time in power to good effect. You have highlighted some of the things that they did do which were very difficult.
But what if part of what makes it difficult is that it's not enough?
Frankly I get mixed messages from Democrats. Voters when polled think they are as corrupt as Republicans.
Why is that?
@futurebird @johnzajac @JessTheUnstill @foolishowl @PallasRiot The public thinks the Democrats are equally corrupt because the media spent VASTLY more time talking about Hillary Clinton using email the same way every previous Secretary of State did than they did talking about the hundreds of millions in fraud Trump did - including fraudulent charity operations *during the 2016 campaign* https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37547094
-
@johnzajac @JessTheUnstill @futurebird @foolishowl @PallasRiot Just the ACA Medicaid expansion alone saved 19,000 lives over 3 years. https://www.cbpp.org/research/health/medicaid-expansion-has-saved-at-least-19000-lives-new-research-finds. And would have saved 15,000 more if the Republicans on the Supreme court hadn't rewritten then law.
It's now been 11 years since implementation, and I think a law that was written to save about 100,000 is a very good thing. Do you disagree?
I don't know if many people here are even suggesting that we wouldn't be "better off" with democrats now and in general?
My concern is that I am terrified that their lack of vision will mean that they do not win.
I don't think trying to tell people they are amazing worked well at all. Because they are not amazing. They are simply "much better than Republicans, technically" that is a hard sell.
-
@futurebird @johnzajac @JessTheUnstill @foolishowl @PallasRiot The public thinks the Democrats are equally corrupt because the media spent VASTLY more time talking about Hillary Clinton using email the same way every previous Secretary of State did than they did talking about the hundreds of millions in fraud Trump did - including fraudulent charity operations *during the 2016 campaign* https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37547094
@CurtAdams @johnzajac @JessTheUnstill @foolishowl @PallasRiot
People who don't care about right-wing fake scandals also think they are corrupt. I'm talking about people who always vote for democrats and don't care about the emails.
This isn't about media.
-
This isn't, in my view, a problem of messaging or of voters "not knowing all the good things Biden did" I did my best to push that too! No. They would just say "but what about Pelosi trading stocks?" or "why is our foreign policy like that?" or "but what will they *do* about immigration?"
Last one is interesting because it *wasn't* that they wanted harsh enforcement. Just a real change from this quasi-legal black market labor nonsense.
@futurebird @johnzajac We *did* have an immigration bill. Trump blocked it.
The important point is that when the policies aren't good enough, the problem is almost always that the Democrats don't have a large enough majority.
-
@futurebird @johnzajac We *did* have an immigration bill. Trump blocked it.
The important point is that when the policies aren't good enough, the problem is almost always that the Democrats don't have a large enough majority.
An immigration bill but also so much backing for more border security. Which is like admitting that the border was ever really a problem. If the thesis is that immigrants don't cause crime (because they don't) why do they keep doing things that suggest republicans are correct?
-
An immigration bill but also so much backing for more border security. Which is like admitting that the border was ever really a problem. If the thesis is that immigrants don't cause crime (because they don't) why do they keep doing things that suggest republicans are correct?
@futurebird @johnzajac Well, because the Democrats had to have some Republican support to pass the bill.
When Dems are really in control, like here in CA, we get sanctuary policies and healthcare for undocumented immigrants.
-
An immigration bill but also so much backing for more border security. Which is like admitting that the border was ever really a problem. If the thesis is that immigrants don't cause crime (because they don't) why do they keep doing things that suggest republicans are correct?
I think this is a distraction because political leadership is about so much more than legislation, which is something Republicans have understood since Reagan and something Democrats haven't understood since JFK and RFK were assassinated.
The real missed play here isn't "immigration legislation"; it's calling out GOP lies about the impact immigration has on the country. It's acknowledging and celebrating our reliance on migrant workers. It's supporting their unions.
-
@futurebird @johnzajac Well, because the Democrats had to have some Republican support to pass the bill.
When Dems are really in control, like here in CA, we get sanctuary policies and healthcare for undocumented immigrants.
Do you think that if Democrats keep doing what they have been doing they will win?
Frankly, as a very practical matter, that's my top concern. How do they wrestle back enough power to move us away from this cliff? And further, if they do get power will they be able to use it effectively?
I have been trusting the democratic leadership "knows what they are doing" and I think that's a big mistake now.
For example: They could stop trading stocks. They could do that today.
-
Do you think that if Democrats keep doing what they have been doing they will win?
Frankly, as a very practical matter, that's my top concern. How do they wrestle back enough power to move us away from this cliff? And further, if they do get power will they be able to use it effectively?
I have been trusting the democratic leadership "knows what they are doing" and I think that's a big mistake now.
For example: They could stop trading stocks. They could do that today.
They keep saying "democracy is in danger" and I believe them.
Yet some of their actions don't tell that same story.
-
I think this is a distraction because political leadership is about so much more than legislation, which is something Republicans have understood since Reagan and something Democrats haven't understood since JFK and RFK were assassinated.
The real missed play here isn't "immigration legislation"; it's calling out GOP lies about the impact immigration has on the country. It's acknowledging and celebrating our reliance on migrant workers. It's supporting their unions.
"It's supporting their unions."
The union angle is the perfect one IMO. Because people who have had their wages depressed by immigrant labor are just people we pretend don't exist. Republicans also don't talk about this exactly, they just do racism.
If the line were "everyone should be able to unionize. no one should have to compete against off the books labor" I think it'd make a real difference with the kind of voters who have drifted away from democrats.
-
"It's supporting their unions."
The union angle is the perfect one IMO. Because people who have had their wages depressed by immigrant labor are just people we pretend don't exist. Republicans also don't talk about this exactly, they just do racism.
If the line were "everyone should be able to unionize. no one should have to compete against off the books labor" I think it'd make a real difference with the kind of voters who have drifted away from democrats.
I agree with this.
IMO, the real issue then is one of credibility: Biden breaking the railroad strike harmed the Democrats far more than they acknowledge. That New Palestine happened weeks later, and they spent weeks trying to bury the story (despite the *black mushroom cloud* lol) just highlighted how wrong Biden was.
Democrats need consistency, and they need to enforce loyalty in the party ranks. WE know they can do that, because they *routinely* do it on the left.
-
I agree with this.
IMO, the real issue then is one of credibility: Biden breaking the railroad strike harmed the Democrats far more than they acknowledge. That New Palestine happened weeks later, and they spent weeks trying to bury the story (despite the *black mushroom cloud* lol) just highlighted how wrong Biden was.
Democrats need consistency, and they need to enforce loyalty in the party ranks. WE know they can do that, because they *routinely* do it on the left.
It's kind of our earlier discussion: a scheme to eliminate big donors doesn't work if you fudge it just a *leeeetle* bit for these specific big donors.
A loud support of unions doesn't matter if it comes and goes depending on what the consultants say.
EDIT: I think Democrats are addicted to default votes and have literally forgotten how to get affirmative ones. That's why absent a completely re-do of their leadership, I struggle to see the party doing any of this.
